Cash vs. Card

[Ironman]

I have never been fingerprinted for using a credit card anywhere.

Only once in my life at a different bank while cashing a check where I was not a member.

Yes Cobia we know but you don't count!

[Navyguy]

Ok, so I should be fine with a card as long as I tell them I am a board member.   Thanks all

[Wildfire]

I have never been fingerprinted for using a credit card anywhere.

Only once in my life at a different bank while cashing a check where I was not a member.

Cobia they only use fingerprint if you use a card to book a party not in the bar .

[Wildfire]

Back when I still had credit cards they are gone now due to poor life choices.  I did use one once at Mustang the one thing i did not like was you had to leave your thumb print, but I did it because that was just the policy.

What I don't understand is why when I went back a year later and the only plastic I had on me was a prepay visa card my name was not even on it they still wanted my thumb print? 

I guess it makes since with an actual credit card if you can't hang with that policy don't use a credit card simple.  But a prepaid card that does not even have your name on it makes no since to me.

The other issue I had with the prepaid card was it was not taking the full value of the card.

Granted it was back in 2012, but it kinda ticked me off because I was using it to finance my party with Kassie so she wound up with about 80 dollars less before the split.   That was not fair to her.

Too her credit though she did not let it effect our interactions on that night.

I would hope though if they are still taking prepaid cards though they are now at least taking the full value of the card.  The price we agreed to was based on what was on that card.  I did not have any cash on me at that point. Guess I am lucky Kassie was not tripping over 75 or 80 bucks.  I forget exactly how much it was.  Like I said it was back in 2012.  a long time ago.  I just remember that for whatever reason it was not taking the full value of the card.

Now 4 plus years later I guess its all a moot point the plastic is all gone, and I never seem to have enough disposable cash to finance my Rodeo's any more. 

As for the original question you should see if they still accept those prepaid cards.  If you don't like using the on site ATM or carrying a bunch of cash around. Just be aware that when I used the prepaid cards they seemed to have a problem pulling the full value of the card.  Maybe now years later if they still accept them it is no longer an issue.

Ironman
Never been a fan of the prepaid cards the problem you had can happen at any merchant you try to use prepaid. As far as the finger print, I like that,an added layer of security . You have your ID and finger print that would make it easy to prove if you did not make the charges on you card.
Plus I use all my point on Southwest to get to Reno so a very nice bonus.
No matter what you use you should have no problems at the Mustang. 

I get the reason behind the use of the ID and finger print on a real credit card.  I just don't see the need for it on those prepaid cards you buy at Safeway. If it was a secured credit card it would still  make since. But the one I am talking about are not even reload able. Rather its worth 25 or 500 once its used up its dead.  So not much chance of you protesting anything.  They are essentially almost the same as cash.  Yes you are correct there are problems with them at various different merchants.

But none of the other businesses that accept them ask for a finger print to use it, and I have yet to run into another business where they could not deduct the full value of the cards through their credit card sliders.

Anyway even though I did not like it I understand the reasons behind the finger print with a regular credit card rather it be unsecured or secured.

But a thumb print really is not needed with those prepaid cards that are only good till all the value of them is spent.  Its not like the money can be put back on them at least to my knowledge unless its the reload able kind.

That is simple the cashiers are told to get a finger print on any card .  They do not need to know what type of card. Just makes it simpler for the cashiers.  And it helps if someone is trying to say his prepaid card was stolen  and used at the Mustang.  Sorry you don't like the finger print . It is really no big deal.
Now if the US would go to chip and pin credit cards it would not be need because of the pin to use the card.  But US card companies are to cheep to use a pin on the new chip cards.

Actually chip cards are being used now by a lot of banks and credit cards in this country now.  Businesses like the one I work for have so many months too install new readers that can read those cards or be fined.  We are supposedly getting ours soon.  For now the cards still come with the magnetic  strip also for the old reader, but once all the merchants have there new readers in place I would say with in the next couple of years those magnetic strips will become a thing of  the past.

As for the thumb print at Mustang at this point I really don't give a flying poop I no longer have any credit cards.  The only reason I even had that prepaid card in 2012 was because it was shortly before I had to get rid of all my cards.  I Knew what was left of my credit at the time would not clear.

I don't know about now, but back in 2012 all credit cards used at the brothels would be run as a cash advance, and i had no cash advance line left,

In 2013 the severe monthly income reduction I knew was coming finally hit so good bye credit card nice knowing you! Now four years since that 2012 trip huge debit is gone, but so is the credit, and my monthly take home income is about half what it was up through 2012.

Which makes it very difficult to finance trips to a brothel.

Its too bad as you know wildfire my ATF retired 3 years in September or October. Which in a weird way makes it a little easier to not try too spend money I can no longer come up with.

But it is still a bit of a pisser because the girl next in line behind my retired ATF.

Kassie is still active, and it bites not having enough $$$$$$ to finance time with her.  She is one of the few ladies still working in the LPIN system that knows how to at least for an hour at a time give or take deal with the departure of my ATF!   So yeah its a pisser because Kassie is a sweet heart with a wild side and its a real bitch not having the disposable income anymore to drop on her ass which is still in my opinon one of the top rear views in Nevada.

My time with Kassie may or may not  have come to a permanent end, but I will remember that girl fondly never the less.  She was always a lot of fun probably still is, and had a connection to some of my funnier lpin adventures.

To add insult to injury Rachel is now at Mustang although I know she could never help me forget my retired ATF  NO offense Rachel, but if the best Kassie could do is make me focus on her for an hour or so at a time.  That is the best any of you others could hope to accomplish, but if i had the funds to finance it.  My gut tells me it be fun to let you give it your best shot.

Anyway enough about that stuff.  The Chip credit cards are already slowly being rolled out.  But it has only been I think about 6 months at this point.

Soon credit cards and debit cards with the magnetic strip on the back will be a thing of the past.

All merchants will need to upgrade their credit card sliders or be fined.

My company will be installing them soon or so I was told.  I think all merchants have till sometime next year to be up to code.  Or maybe it was 2018 I forget.

Yes Ironman . All my cards have chips in them .  But American Credit Card Company  do not use it with a Personal Identification Number  ( PIN )   for credit card transactions .

It is called chip and signature in the USA .   Not chip and PIN  ( like most of Europe )

Yes ATM Cards and debit cards now have a chips and you must use a PIN also .  I just got one . You have to leave you card in the ATM and enter you PIN . The card stays in the ATM until the translation is complete.  ( that is if the ATM is one of the new chip & pin  type )

That is not so for a general credit cards .   No PIN need for general credit cards usage .   

The credit card company's  said it would cost to much to go to Chip & PIN  because they would have to manage the PIN's for all the credit cards and they do not want to do that right now. 

That was my point about the cards .

[Wildfire]

Ok, so I should be fine with a card as long as I tell them I am a board member.   Thanks all

That is yes Navyguy !   No worries .  Just go and have some fun 

[Ironman]

Back when I still had credit cards they are gone now due to poor life choices.  I did use one once at Mustang the one thing i did not like was you had to leave your thumb print, but I did it because that was just the policy.

What I don't understand is why when I went back a year later and the only plastic I had on me was a prepay visa card my name was not even on it they still wanted my thumb print? 

I guess it makes since with an actual credit card if you can't hang with that policy don't use a credit card simple.  But a prepaid card that does not even have your name on it makes no since to me.

The other issue I had with the prepaid card was it was not taking the full value of the card.

Granted it was back in 2012, but it kinda ticked me off because I was using it to finance my party with Kassie so she wound up with about 80 dollars less before the split.   That was not fair to her.

Too her credit though she did not let it effect our interactions on that night.

I would hope though if they are still taking prepaid cards though they are now at least taking the full value of the card.  The price we agreed to was based on what was on that card.  I did not have any cash on me at that point. Guess I am lucky Kassie was not tripping over 75 or 80 bucks.  I forget exactly how much it was.  Like I said it was back in 2012.  a long time ago.  I just remember that for whatever reason it was not taking the full value of the card.

Now 4 plus years later I guess its all a moot point the plastic is all gone, and I never seem to have enough disposable cash to finance my Rodeo's any more. 

As for the original question you should see if they still accept those prepaid cards.  If you don't like using the on site ATM or carrying a bunch of cash around. Just be aware that when I used the prepaid cards they seemed to have a problem pulling the full value of the card.  Maybe now years later if they still accept them it is no longer an issue.

Ironman
Never been a fan of the prepaid cards the problem you had can happen at any merchant you try to use prepaid. As far as the finger print, I like that,an added layer of security . You have your ID and finger print that would make it easy to prove if you did not make the charges on you card.
Plus I use all my point on Southwest to get to Reno so a very nice bonus.
No matter what you use you should have no problems at the Mustang. 

I get the reason behind the use of the ID and finger print on a real credit card.  I just don't see the need for it on those prepaid cards you buy at Safeway. If it was a secured credit card it would still  make since. But the one I am talking about are not even reload able. Rather its worth 25 or 500 once its used up its dead.  So not much chance of you protesting anything.  They are essentially almost the same as cash.  Yes you are correct there are problems with them at various different merchants.

But none of the other businesses that accept them ask for a finger print to use it, and I have yet to run into another business where they could not deduct the full value of the cards through their credit card sliders.

Anyway even though I did not like it I understand the reasons behind the finger print with a regular credit card rather it be unsecured or secured.

But a thumb print really is not needed with those prepaid cards that are only good till all the value of them is spent.  Its not like the money can be put back on them at least to my knowledge unless its the reload able kind.

That is simple the cashiers are told to get a finger print on any card .  They do not need to know what type of card. Just makes it simpler for the cashiers.  And it helps if someone is trying to say his prepaid card was stolen  and used at the Mustang.  Sorry you don't like the finger print . It is really no big deal.
Now if the US would go to chip and pin credit cards it would not be need because of the pin to use the card.  But US card companies are to cheep to use a pin on the new chip cards.

Actually chip cards are being used now by a lot of banks and credit cards in this country now.  Businesses like the one I work for have so many months too install new readers that can read those cards or be fined.  We are supposedly getting ours soon.  For now the cards still come with the magnetic  strip also for the old reader, but once all the merchants have there new readers in place I would say with in the next couple of years those magnetic strips will become a thing of  the past.

As for the thumb print at Mustang at this point I really don't give a flying poop I no longer have any credit cards.  The only reason I even had that prepaid card in 2012 was because it was shortly before I had to get rid of all my cards.  I Knew what was left of my credit at the time would not clear.

I don't know about now, but back in 2012 all credit cards used at the brothels would be run as a cash advance, and i had no cash advance line left,

In 2013 the severe monthly income reduction I knew was coming finally hit so good bye credit card nice knowing you! Now four years since that 2012 trip huge debit is gone, but so is the credit, and my monthly take home income is about half what it was up through 2012.

Which makes it very difficult to finance trips to a brothel.

Its too bad as you know wildfire my ATF retired 3 years in September or October. Which in a weird way makes it a little easier to not try too spend money I can no longer come up with.

But it is still a bit of a pisser because the girl next in line behind my retired ATF.

Kassie is still active, and it bites not having enough $$$$$$ to finance time with her.  She is one of the few ladies still working in the LPIN system that knows how to at least for an hour at a time give or take deal with the departure of my ATF!   So yeah its a pisser because Kassie is a sweet heart with a wild side and its a real bitch not having the disposable income anymore to drop on her ass which is still in my opinon one of the top rear views in Nevada.

My time with Kassie may or may not  have come to a permanent end, but I will remember that girl fondly never the less.  She was always a lot of fun probably still is, and had a connection to some of my funnier lpin adventures.

To add insult to injury Rachel is now at Mustang although I know she could never help me forget my retired ATF  NO offense Rachel, but if the best Kassie could do is make me focus on her for an hour or so at a time.  That is the best any of you others could hope to accomplish, but if i had the funds to finance it.  My gut tells me it be fun to let you give it your best shot.

Anyway enough about that stuff.  The Chip credit cards are already slowly being rolled out.  But it has only been I think about 6 months at this point.

Soon credit cards and debit cards with the magnetic strip on the back will be a thing of the past.

All merchants will need to upgrade their credit card sliders or be fined.

My company will be installing them soon or so I was told.  I think all merchants have till sometime next year to be up to code.  Or maybe it was 2018 I forget.

Yes Ironman . All my cards have chips in them .  But American Credit Card Company  do not use it with a Personal Identification Number  ( PIN )   for credit card transactions .

It is called chip and signature in the USA .   Not chip and PIN  ( like most of Europe )

Yes ATM Cards and debit cards now have a chips and you must use a PIN also .  I just got one . You have to leave you card in the ATM and enter you PIN . The card stays in the ATM until the translation is complete.  ( that is if the ATM is one of the new chip & pin  type )

That is not so for a general credit cards .   No PIN need for general credit cards usage .   

The credit card company's  said it would cost to much to go to Chip & PIN  because they would have to manage the PIN's for all the credit cards and they do not want to do that right now. 

That was my point about the cards .

Ok good to know if and win I ever get back on the credit train.

I won't use my debit card in anywhere outside of my home state because I know my bank will just lock it down.

I would only contact them to let them know I was out of my own state or traveling if I had to be out of my own area for an extended period of time. Most of my trips to Reno are 2 days tops.  The 3 days back in June was an anomaly.  Good thing I can't eat more then once a day in Nevada, and I won 90 bucks give or take on video poker the second night.

[dreamscometrue]

Ok good to know if and win I ever get back on the credit train.

I won't use my debit card in anywhere outside of my home state because I know my bank will just lock it down.

I would only contact them to let them know I was out of my own state or traveling if I had to be out of my own area for an extended period of time. Most of my trips to Reno are 2 days tops.  The 3 days back in June was an anomaly.  Good thing I can't eat more then once a day in Nevada, and I won 90 bucks give or take on video poker the second night.

I use my debit card everywhere I go but when I'm going out of state, I call the bank to let them know where I'm going and usually don't have a problem at all. The only time I did have a problem was when I buying a couple things at a Wal-Mart in El Paso, TX on my bowling trip last year when someone new thought my card was being used too quick. I had gotten gas and then shopped at Wal-Mart.

[Wildfire]

Ok good to know if and win I ever get back on the credit train.

I won't use my debit card in anywhere outside of my home state because I know my bank will just lock it down.

I would only contact them to let them know I was out of my own state or traveling if I had to be out of my own area for an extended period of time. Most of my trips to Reno are 2 days tops.  The 3 days back in June was an anomaly.  Good thing I can't eat more then once a day in Nevada, and I won 90 bucks give or take on video poker the second night.

I use my debit card everywhere I go but when I'm going out of state, I call the bank to let them know where I'm going and usually don't have a problem at all. The only time I did have a problem was when I buying a couple things at a Wal-Mart in El Paso, TX on my bowling trip last year when someone new thought my card was being used too quick. I had gotten gas and then shopped at Wal-Mart.

Well I have only had trouble with a credit cards one time when traveling and that was in Las Vegas over 10 years ago at Spearmint Rhino .  Was in VIP and they told my card had been declined .  Well I was pissed off to say the least.  I have to call the card company and tell them it was ok that I was making the charges.  After that I learned to set up travel notices with the credit card company .  I have never had any other problems using credit cards while traveling . 

[Mikey]

Like Shooter I do cash only for, 1) no paper trail, 2) it prevents me from spending more than I planned on.

[dreamscometrue]

I've used cash and cards at the brothel and never spend more than I plan on. Lots of times, I spend less.

[Ironman]

Ok good to know if and win I ever get back on the credit train.

I won't use my debit card in anywhere outside of my home state because I know my bank will just lock it down.

I would only contact them to let them know I was out of my own state or traveling if I had to be out of my own area for an extended period of time. Most of my trips to Reno are 2 days tops.  The 3 days back in June was an anomaly.  Good thing I can't eat more then once a day in Nevada, and I won 90 bucks give or take on video poker the second night.

I use my debit card everywhere I go but when I'm going out of state, I call the bank to let them know where I'm going and usually don't have a problem at all. The only time I did have a problem was when I buying a couple things at a Wal-Mart in El Paso, TX on my bowling trip last year when someone new thought my card was being used too quick. I had gotten gas and then shopped at Wal-Mart.

Ugg! You mentioned bowling I had a 356 set tonight. I ain't bowled that bad on league night in 5 years. Almost makes me want to throw my equipment in the ocean and never bowl again after tonight. Was bad! Birthday bowling league night was a massacre. It was a bad sign when I over slept and barley got to the center on time.

Now I got to go to work, and 99 percent of the time bad bowling series before going to work means even worse night at work.   I should have just stayed in bed and skipped today.  

[dreamscometrue]

Ok good to know if and win I ever get back on the credit train.

I won't use my debit card in anywhere outside of my home state because I know my bank will just lock it down.

I would only contact them to let them know I was out of my own state or traveling if I had to be out of my own area for an extended period of time. Most of my trips to Reno are 2 days tops.  The 3 days back in June was an anomaly.  Good thing I can't eat more then once a day in Nevada, and I won 90 bucks give or take on video poker the second night.

I use my debit card everywhere I go but when I'm going out of state, I call the bank to let them know where I'm going and usually don't have a problem at all. The only time I did have a problem was when I buying a couple things at a Wal-Mart in El Paso, TX on my bowling trip last year when someone new thought my card was being used too quick. I had gotten gas and then shopped at Wal-Mart.

Ugg! You mentioned bowling I had a 356 set tonight. I ain't bowled that bad on league night in 5 years. Almost makes me want to throw my equipment in the ocean and never bowl again after tonight. Was bad! Birthday bowling league night was a massacre. It was a bad sign when I over slept and barley got to the center on time.

Now I got to go to work, and 99 percent of the time bad bowling series before going to work means even worse night at work.   I should have just stayed in bed and skipped today.  

I haven't bowled since April 28 when I was in Reno for nationals. In the singles event, I had actually gone for a 104 game to a 228 once I finally able to figure the lanes out. I finished last season with a 204, what did you finish with?

[Ironman]

Ugg! You mentioned bowling I had a 356 set tonight. I ain't bowled that bad on league night in 5 years. Almost makes me want to throw my equipment in the ocean and never bowl again after tonight. Was bad! Birthday bowling league night was a massacre. It was a bad sign when I over slept and barley got to the center on time.

Now I got to go to work, and 99 percent of the time bad bowling series before going to work means even worse night at work.   I should have just stayed in bed and skipped today.  

I haven't bowled since April 28 when I was in Reno for nationals. In the singles event, I had actually gone for a 104 game to a 228 once I finally able to figure the lanes out. I finished last season with a 204, what did you finish with?

Your average is significantly higher then mine.  I am normally in the low to mid 150's,  I think I will eventually do better with this new ball I got about  a month ago.  But I need to get used to playing more inside again, and I need to figure out away to be able to convert at least 70 percent of my 7 pins.

I did not bowl nationals because my team mates are all above 180 except for me I would have had to hook up with a team in the classic division that needed a bowler, and I just did not feel the need to hang around the stadium the weekend my teammates went up on the off chance a team of 180 and bellows might need a bowler. I did bowl the 40 frame game back in June with my teammates the night before their nationals, and an old friend of mine just happened to be in the Reno area. so we went over to GSR and bowled a few games.  I been in a slump ever since, but anyone whom has ever watched me bowl well tell you considering what I am dealing with i am not too bad, if I and at times I can hang with almost anyone if my timing is on and I carry the 7 pin.  the 7 pin leave and to a lesser extent 4 7 combo equals death for me.

The problem with my style I am prone to the occasional slump which can last a month or 2 sometimes a little longer. Then all of the sudden I get hot again and wont hit a bad slump again for a year or 2.

I know what I been doing wrong since Reno, and I think I will snap out of it soon I hope.  I have had several good games with this new ball in practice. I just need to do it in league now.

But you know how it is.  It is much easier to do it in practice with or without fresh oil.  If you are practicing alone or with one other person its much easier to find your rhythm and keep it going. in League depending on who you are bowling you may need to wait more then 5 or 6 minutes between turns.

Anyway your average is about 50 pins higher if we ever end up bowling at the same time and we know who the other is you have to spot me at least 80 percent at a minimum of the difference between your average and mine.      

[dreamscometrue]

Your average is significantly higher then mine.  I am normally in the low to mid 150's,  I think I will eventually do better with this new ball I got about  a month ago.  But I need to get used to playing more inside again, and I need to figure out away to be able to convert at least 70 percent of my 7 pins.

I did not bowl nationals because my team mates are all above 180 except for me I would have had to hook up with a team in the classic division that needed a bowler, and I just did not feel the need to hang around the stadium the weekend my teammates went up on the off chance a team of 180 and bellows might need a bowler. I did bowl the 40 frame game back in June with my teammates the night before their nationals, and an old friend of mine just happened to be in the Reno area. so we went over to GSR and bowled a few games.  I been in a slump ever since, but anyone whom has ever watched me bowl well tell you considering what I am dealing with i am not too bad, if I and at times I can hang with almost anyone if my timing is on and I carry the 7 pin.  the 7 pin leave and to a lesser extent 4 7 combo equals death for me.

The problem with my style I am prone to the occasional slump which can last a month or 2 sometimes a little longer. Then all of the sudden I get hot again and wont hit a bad slump again for a year or 2.

I know what I been doing wrong since Reno, and I think I will snap out of it soon I hope.  I have had several good games with this new ball in practice. I just need to do it in league now.

But you know how it is.  It is much easier to do it in practice with or without fresh oil.  If you are practicing alone or with one other person its much easier to find your rhythm and keep it going. in League depending on who you are bowling you may need to wait more then 5 or 6 minutes between turns.

Anyway your average is about 50 pins higher if we ever end up bowling at the same time and we know who the other is you have to spot me at least 80 percent at a minimum of the difference between your average and mine.    

do you try to bowl nationals every year? I'm always looking to add to my group and our averages range from the 150's to 200's

[Ironman]

Your average is significantly higher then mine.  I am normally in the low to mid 150's,  I think I will eventually do better with this new ball I got about  a month ago.  But I need to get used to playing more inside again, and I need to figure out away to be able to convert at least 70 percent of my 7 pins.

I did not bowl nationals because my team mates are all above 180 except for me I would have had to hook up with a team in the classic division that needed a bowler, and I just did not feel the need to hang around the stadium the weekend my teammates went up on the off chance a team of 180 and bellows might need a bowler. I did bowl the 40 frame game back in June with my teammates the night before their nationals, and an old friend of mine just happened to be in the Reno area. so we went over to GSR and bowled a few games.  I been in a slump ever since, but anyone whom has ever watched me bowl well tell you considering what I am dealing with i am not too bad, if I and at times I can hang with almost anyone if my timing is on and I carry the 7 pin.  the 7 pin leave and to a lesser extent 4 7 combo equals death for me.

The problem with my style I am prone to the occasional slump which can last a month or 2 sometimes a little longer. Then all of the sudden I get hot again and wont hit a bad slump again for a year or 2.

I know what I been doing wrong since Reno, and I think I will snap out of it soon I hope.  I have had several good games with this new ball in practice. I just need to do it in league now.

But you know how it is.  It is much easier to do it in practice with or without fresh oil.  If you are practicing alone or with one other person its much easier to find your rhythm and keep it going. in League depending on who you are bowling you may need to wait more then 5 or 6 minutes between turns.

Anyway your average is about 50 pins higher if we ever end up bowling at the same time and we know who the other is you have to spot me at least 80 percent at a minimum of the difference between your average and mine.    

do you try to bowl nationals every year? I'm always looking to add to my group and our averages range from the 150's to 200's

My teammates were discussing rather or not they wanted to go to Vegas given they are in the higher division then me. Assuming for the moment they do go. I will not be going with unless I know I am bowling unless I win the powerball so I can afford to do certain things.
I was willing to go to Reno knowing full well I was not bowling because its only 3 and half hours from where I live, and an old friend was in the area that weekend. So I had incentive to ride along on up.
Vegas is a different animal added travel expenses. So unless they commit before the dead line and I know I will actually be bowling I won't be part of it again till maybe 2019 when it returns to Reno.

But not totally writing Vegas nationals off yet. I go to Vegas ever year I am going for 6 days starting August 2ñd. So Vegas is cool, but I am not going to take my equipment on the plane or ride for 7 hours by car unless I know I am bowling. It also would probably mean I can't take my normal Vegas trip next year. Which is OK. But again only If I am actually bowling. Reno is much more convenient obviously only 3.5 hours by car. I also had a reason to come along as it worked out that won't be there in Vegas.
But like I said not totally ruling it out waiting to see what my buddy does the guy they drafted last year to bowl with because my average is to low or theirs is to high lol to bowl in the same division hurt himself. So they are pondering Vegas 2017.

I will think about going once they make their minds up. If it was in Reno it would be an easy call.

I would like to try nationals at least once before my body gets to old and beat up to bowl anymore.

Ironically the oil pattern they used this year my buddy said if I had hooked up with a classic team probably would have fit my shot well, and I saw the scores they were low in my division. Must have been a difficult shot. Did you cash in the regular division?

I head they are adding a new 190 division next year. So that should increase the number of participants.